Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  2  
Author: Subject: Copper and zinc sulfate fumes warning!!!!
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
*****




Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 13:19


Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
Just posting to confirm that I'm alive :P

Fever is all gone and I feel normal, except my mouth tastes like metal throughout the day (seems to get better when I drink lots....


Glad to hear it, but is there a count down clock somewhere?

More seriously, do it yourself home chelation may turn into your biggest problem!

Your kidney is a fragile organ and even professionals, with frequent montoring of blood chemistry, still manage to kill people.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pasrules
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 78
Registered: 4-1-2015
Location: Yellow Cake Deposit
Member Is Offline

Mood: Lacking an S orbital

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 13:44


Always drink cows milk after any experimenting. In Australia chemical workers get 500ml of milk allocated to them per day as it is supposed to acts as a chemical sponge then passes out of the body.

Also all most all MSDS state "do not induce vomiting" however drinking milk and then vomiting is very beneficial in the reduction of chemical poisoning.

Source: My father who worked in a paint resin plant (lots of isocyanates).
Bach industrial chemistry.

Note: Some of the chemicals he engineered didn't have a MSDS so when workers had exposure a courier from the local hospital would have to retrieve his notes on the substance.

So don't always expect that every detail possible will always be avaliable on an MSDS especially when substances may take 40+ years to become carcinogenic.

A carcinogenic substance is the initiator however it won't cause a cancer until it comes into contact with a promoter.

Source: My Pathological basis of disease class observing Myoxoma in the Australian rabbit population.




Atropine, Bicarb, Calcium.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
blogfast25
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 15:15


Quote: Originally posted by Pasrules  
Always drink cows milk after any experimenting. In Australia chemical workers get 500ml of milk allocated to them per day as it is supposed to acts as a chemical sponge then passes out of the body.



Skimmed or full cream? In that bled I live in we only have goat's milk. Am I f*cked?

[Edited on 28-1-2015 by blogfast25]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Cou
National Hazard
****




Posts: 958
Registered: 16-5-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mad Scientist

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 15:59


My main concern is that I might have inhaled copper (ii) sulfate mist while boiling a solution. If I go get a blood metal test and it says I have high copper, I dun fucked up for life, apparentally copper in the body has a half life of 33 days, but it can stay embedded for a while... or I'll find out it's just a flu and I can finally have some peace of mind.

[Edited on 29-1-2015 by Cou]

[Edited on 29-1-2015 by Cou]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Etaoin Shrdlu
National Hazard
****




Posts: 724
Registered: 25-12-2013
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline

Mood: Insufferable

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 16:39


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Quote: Originally posted by Pasrules  
Always drink cows milk after any experimenting. In Australia chemical workers get 500ml of milk allocated to them per day as it is supposed to acts as a chemical sponge then passes out of the body.



Skimmed or full cream? In that bled I live in we only have goat's milk. Am I f*cked?

[Edited on 28-1-2015 by blogfast25]

Udderly.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
gardul
HAZARD TO TEH CATZ!
***




Posts: 256
Registered: 18-10-2014
Location: Under the Sun in a beaker
Member Is Offline

Mood: Vivified!

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 17:07


Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
My main concern is that I might have inhaled copper (ii) sulfate mist while boiling a solution. If I go get a blood metal test and it says I have high copper, I dun fucked up for life, apparentally copper in the body has a half life of 33 days, but it can stay embedded for a while... or I'll find out it's just a flu and I can finally have some peace of mind.

[Edited on 29-1-2015 by Cou]

[Edited on 29-1-2015 by Cou]


Let me state this again.

copper ion's doubtfully left the solution. I gave you an example earlier too. If you are ill from this then I must be "Flipping" made of copper by now. Trust me, Copper Ion's dont easily leave the orginal soultion. I have tried countless times to actually disprove that. It just doesn't happen with simple low level heating. And even at high temps I don't think they would escape easily ether, Unless you are putting the copper directly to a heat source. TRUST US! But because I think you have some nasty virus, you should still go see a doc. When you get a chance, I would recomend you doing the expierment i noted above. it will ease your mind.




I just made you read this very pointless signature. How does it feel?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
blogfast25
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 17:23


Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
My main concern is that I might have inhaled copper (ii) sulfate mist while boiling a solution. If I go get a blood metal test and it says I have high copper, I dun fucked up for life, apparentally copper in the body has a half life of 33 days, but it can stay embedded for a while... or I'll find out it's just a flu and I can finally have some peace of mind.


The vapours (steam) coming off a boiling CuSO4 solution basically contain NO copper because the partial vapour pressure of CuSO4 in the steam is basically zero. EXTREMELY low.

'Mist', as in an aerosol of fine solution droplets would be a different thing but it's very unlikely you will have inhaled that w/o noticing that. Extremely so in fact because you would immediately recoil at the unpleasantness of that experience.

Have the tests done and be done with it!

Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu  

Udderly.


Cowpletely.


[Edited on 29-1-2015 by blogfast25]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Cou
National Hazard
****




Posts: 958
Registered: 16-5-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mad Scientist

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 18:26


My dad is making a doctor's appointment. Hopefully the blood metal test isn't too expensive... I'm starting to wonder if i'm just making up symptoms in my head now (ever heard of the nocebo effect?)

Thanks for the cow jokes to lighten a scary situation.

[Edited on 29-1-2015 by Cou]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Darkstar
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 279
Registered: 23-11-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sleepy

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 18:27


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  

Skimmed or full cream? In that bled I live in we only have goat's milk. Am I f*cked?


You're probably fucked either way considering Wikipedia's article on metal fume fever suggests that the cow's milk remedy is basically a load of horseshit anyway.

Quote:
Treatment of mild metal fume fever consists of bedrest, hydrate with plenty of water, and symptomatic therapy (e.g. aspirin for headaches) as indicated. In the case of non-allergic acute lung injury in the setting of metal fume fever, a standard or even recommended approach to treatment has not been studied.[12]

A traditional remedy is to consume large quantities of cow's milk, either before or immediately after exposure.[1] However, this advice is challenged by the United Kingdom Health and Safety Executive (the national independent watchdog for work-related health, safety and illness), who write "Don’t believe the stories about drinking milk before welding. It does not prevent you getting metal fume fever."[13]


@ Pasrules:

I'm not calling your father a liar or trying to say that he is wrong, or anything. I can honestly admit that I don't know enough on the subject to make any such claims; however, that is what I found. Don't shoot the messenger.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Cou
National Hazard
****




Posts: 958
Registered: 16-5-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mad Scientist

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 18:29


Quote: Originally posted by gardul  
Unless you are putting the copper directly to a heat source.


What does that mean? Putting the copper sulfate crystals DIRECTLY in the flame?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
gardul
HAZARD TO TEH CATZ!
***




Posts: 256
Registered: 18-10-2014
Location: Under the Sun in a beaker
Member Is Offline

Mood: Vivified!

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 19:06


Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
Quote: Originally posted by gardul  
Unless you are putting the copper directly to a heat source.


What does that mean? Putting the copper sulfate crystals DIRECTLY in the flame?


I mean copper it's self. You would need to heat copper to 700C+ to even get it to fume to remotely have a health effect i would assume. In solutions, Copper ions don't travel through fumes/vapor. ( at least for sulfate and chloride solutions). I have tried many many times. Very little escapes if any.

I'm just saying, I highly doubt you got sick from this. Just my 2 cents.





I just made you read this very pointless signature. How does it feel?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Cou
National Hazard
****




Posts: 958
Registered: 16-5-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mad Scientist

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 19:15


Quote: Originally posted by gardul  
Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
Quote: Originally posted by gardul  
Unless you are putting the copper directly to a heat source.


What does that mean? Putting the copper sulfate crystals DIRECTLY in the flame?


I mean copper it's self. You would need to heat copper to 700C+ to even get it to fume to remotely have a health effect i would assume. In solutions, Copper ions don't travel through fumes/vapor. ( at least for sulfate and chloride solutions). I have tried many many times. Very little escapes if any.

I'm just saying, I highly doubt you got sick from this. Just my 2 cents.



So you've heated solutions of soluble copper salts to their boiling point (when it starts bubbling)? I'm talking about mists of a solution, not necessarily pure gaseous CuSO4 fumes, which aren't a risk unless you get far above the boiling point of water.



[Edited on 29-1-2015 by Cou]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
gardul
HAZARD TO TEH CATZ!
***




Posts: 256
Registered: 18-10-2014
Location: Under the Sun in a beaker
Member Is Offline

Mood: Vivified!

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 19:20


Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
Quote: Originally posted by gardul  
Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
Quote: Originally posted by gardul  
Unless you are putting the copper directly to a heat source.


What does that mean? Putting the copper sulfate crystals DIRECTLY in the flame?


I mean copper it's self. You would need to heat copper to 700C+ to even get it to fume to remotely have a health effect i would assume. In solutions, Copper ions don't travel through fumes/vapor. ( at least for sulfate and chloride solutions). I have tried many many times. Very little escapes if any.

I'm just saying, I highly doubt you got sick from this. Just my 2 cents.



So you've heated solutions of soluble salts to their boiling point (when it starts bubbling)? I'm talking about mists of a solution, not necessarily pure gaseous CuSO4 fumes, which aren't a risk unless you get far above the boiling point of water.

[Edited on 29-1-2015 by Cou]

[Edited on 29-1-2015 by Cou]


That's my point. The steam from your solution wouldn't carry copper or Zinc ions. So you wouldn't have been able to inhale them. Unless you actually drank the solution. Depending what was in your solution, is what you actually inhaled.




I just made you read this very pointless signature. How does it feel?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Darkstar
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 279
Registered: 23-11-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sleepy

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 19:34


Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
My dad is making a doctor's appointment. Hopefully the blood metal test isn't too expensive... I'm starting to wonder if i'm just making up symptoms in my head now (ever heard of the nocebo effect?)

Thanks for the cow jokes to lighten a scary situation.

[Edited on 29-1-2015 by Cou]


I'm sure you're going to be just fine. Even though it's highly unlikely that you were actually poisoned, making an appointment with your doctor was probably the best course of action. If you say you're feeling sick, go see a professional and find out what's going on. If nothing else, it will give you peace of mind and allow you to get back to experimenting! There's never any point in wasting time second guessing or trying quack remedies like garlic cloves and parsley if you truly believe heavy-metal poisoning is a real possibility.

And don't let us giving you a hard time discourage you from posting in the future. It's always better to ask if you have questions or concerns about your health or the safety of an experiment. I'm sure just about everyone here at one point or another has been worried that they might have inhaled or ingested a potentially toxic amount of something. We've all been there. I remember feeling just like you're feeling now after experimenting with elemental mercury for the very first time. I started reading all about how toxic its vapors are and how careful you need to be when working with it, only to end up making myself paranoid that I had been poisoned. I started looking for symptoms that simply weren't there, attributing every little thing I could find wrong with me to mercury poisoning.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
gardul
HAZARD TO TEH CATZ!
***




Posts: 256
Registered: 18-10-2014
Location: Under the Sun in a beaker
Member Is Offline

Mood: Vivified!

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 19:42


Quote: Originally posted by Darkstar  
Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
My dad is making a doctor's appointment. Hopefully the blood metal test isn't too expensive... I'm starting to wonder if i'm just making up symptoms in my head now (ever heard of the nocebo effect?)

Thanks for the cow jokes to lighten a scary situation.

[Edited on 29-1-2015 by Cou]


I'm sure you're going to be just fine. Even though it's highly unlikely that you were actually poisoned, making an appointment with your doctor was probably the best course of action. If you say you're feeling sick, go see a professional and find out what's going on. If nothing else, it will give you peace of mind and allow you to get back to experimenting! There's never any point in wasting time second guessing or trying quack remedies like garlic cloves and parsley if you truly believe heavy-metal poisoning is a real possibility.

And don't let us giving you a hard time discourage you from posting in the future. It's always better to ask if you have questions or concerns about your health or the safety of an experiment. I'm sure just about everyone here at one point or another has been worried that they might have inhaled or ingested a potentially toxic amount of something. We've all been there. I remember feeling just like you're feeling now after experimenting with elemental mercury for the very first time. I started reading all about how toxic its vapors are and how careful you need to be when working with it, only to end up making myself paranoid that I had been poisoned. I started looking for symptoms that simply weren't there, attributing every little thing I could find wrong with me to mercury poisoning.


I would agree. Mine was ammonia actually. I had a leak in a tube and a mishap that spread ammonia + H2O vapor all over. I feel really ill within the next few hours after cleaning up. Really was just a nasty virus. realzing everyone at work and my wife's work was getting sick.




I just made you read this very pointless signature. How does it feel?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pasrules
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 78
Registered: 4-1-2015
Location: Yellow Cake Deposit
Member Is Offline

Mood: Lacking an S orbital

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 21:38


@Darkstar
Milk is basic which stops the stomach acid from turning isocyantes into hydrogen cyanide.

It was actually the workers union that demanded milk be supplied.

and skim milk was type however udderly and cowpletely had me laughing.

[Edited on 29-1-2015 by Pasrules]




Atropine, Bicarb, Calcium.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
CuReUS
National Hazard
****




Posts: 928
Registered: 9-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-1-2015 at 23:41


Quote: Originally posted by Pasrules  

A carcinogenic substance is the initiator however it won't cause a cancer until it comes into contact with a promoter.

could you please tell more about this,i didn't know this fact :o
I thought only those people get cancer who have the specific gene.But according to the Knudson hypothesis,almost anyone can get cancer:(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knudson_hypothesis
View user's profile View All Posts By User
macckone
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2158
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline

Mood: Electrical

[*] posted on 29-1-2015 at 00:55


Try a good whiff of chloroacetone.
toxic and carcinogenic .
although there is no evidence it caused my cancer.

cancer is usually genetics and environmental not one or the other.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pasrules
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 78
Registered: 4-1-2015
Location: Yellow Cake Deposit
Member Is Offline

Mood: Lacking an S orbital

[*] posted on 29-1-2015 at 04:05


A neoplasm (early cancer) won't occur unless the correct conditions are met. For all intensive purposes I am talking about inducing a cancer however this does apply to hereditary cancers aswell.

The following must be met in the correct order:
1. Exposure to the initiator (carcinogen)
2. Exposure to the promotor which allows the initiator to cause a neoplasm within a cell.
Source: Australian rabbits where tested by painting their skin with myxoma virus which had no effect until a promotor was added and it also had no effect if done in the incorrect order.
3. Propagation the neoplasm reaches a cancerous stage where it is performing biology functions that are not typical of that tissue type.

This is why some people who have a family history are given a "chance" of getting cancer because an event must occur which changes the way the cell replicates this can be based on a biological clock due to epigenetics but more often than not it requires some form of promotor.

Source: my pathological basis of desiease, cell biology and functional proteins and genes classes.

Heathly tip: Chemists always eat their cereal, keep regular fiber in your diet as it reduces the time for a stool to pass which in turn reduces the chance of any carcinogenic substances within the stool to have affect aswell as the milk thing I mentioned earlier.

Cancerous substance of the day: ethelyene oxide, used for sterilisation. The first time I have ever been in a lab with two air locks. Causes sterility, birth defects and cancer.

Psssst ADMINs make a medical thread so we have something to reference in case of our ourselves or others becoming poisoned. I can guarantee someone has gotten sick without going to hospital on fear of legalities and members like Cou can have something more personal to refer too rather than generic chemical advice found elsewhere. Anyone agree?

[Edited on 29-1-2015 by Pasrules]




Atropine, Bicarb, Calcium.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
blogfast25
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 29-1-2015 at 07:38


Quote: Originally posted by Cou  
I'm starting to wonder if i'm just making up symptoms in my head now (ever heard of the nocebo effect?)

Thanks for the cow jokes to lighten a scary situation.



No, it's a form of 'confirmation bias' (but that is very related to the placebo effect).

1) You were close to a hot CuSO4 solution and are vaguely aware of copper's toxicity

2) You got ill somehow, almost 100 % certainly unrelated to the CuSO4 solution

3) Your mind adds two to two and gets five, attributing the symptoms to the copper

4) Further superficial reading on the dangers of copper further reinforces your new found belief system ("symptoms are caused by copper poisoning")

It's a classic case of self-deception. Very common in its many manifestations.

[Edited on 29-1-2015 by blogfast25]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Etaoin Shrdlu
National Hazard
****




Posts: 724
Registered: 25-12-2013
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline

Mood: Insufferable

[*] posted on 29-1-2015 at 10:48


That's what the nocebo effect is. Someone's exposed to something that they associate with bad side effects, then start attributing/relating symptoms to it. Basically the opposite of the placebo effect.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
zed
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2275
Registered: 6-9-2008
Location: Great State of Jefferson, City of Portland
Member Is Offline

Mood: Semi-repentant Sith Lord

[*] posted on 31-1-2015 at 15:12


Zinc? It takes some. You may remember the craze 20 to 30 years ago, wherein Zinc was being touted as a cold remedy. 11 mg tablets, as I recall. Supposed to belay an oncoming cold.

I suppose it may be worse to inhale the vapor. At the local stove shop, they voice this warning...."Don't use Galvanized for stove pipe." It is quite tempting, as black stove pipe is very expensive and Galvanized is very cheap, but substituting one for the other can result in metal fume fever. A condition that can persist until ALL of the Zinc on your stove pipes, is long gone. Cheaper to just buy the right kind of stove pipe; imagine the medical bills you could acquire, trying to diagnose a chronic mysterious malady.

Plenty of ways to get poisoned around the lab, other than Zinc. Simply boiling some in H20, well, it ain't likely.

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
*****




Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline

Mood: I just don't know...

[*] posted on 31-1-2015 at 15:18


Now the guys gonna have a stroke...

Back to square one. I do hope your over it Cou. Best to ya for real.




They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
macckone
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2158
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline

Mood: Electrical

[*] posted on 31-1-2015 at 15:31


Zinc is still sold as a cold remedy.
It is one of the only ones that is even somewhat effective.
It slows the replication of the virus and causes a shorter
milder illness if given early enough.
It has also been shown to be effective against some cancers.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
CuReUS
National Hazard
****




Posts: 928
Registered: 9-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 1-2-2015 at 04:15


IIRC,the zinc used for cold remedy is in the form of citrate,gluconate or chelate ,not direct Zn metal:o
its like telling salt is bad,just because it has Na and Cl :P
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  2  

  Go To Top