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Author: Subject: tin metal powder
anyz
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[*] posted on 11-6-2015 at 23:58
tin metal powder


Hi,
I'm looking for tin (Sn) powder at home lab. is there a simple way like heating and getting it i powder form possible mixing some other substance.

and finally what is its final color; gray , white?
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[*] posted on 12-6-2015 at 03:48


I have some tin ingots that are a shiny silver color.
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anyz
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[*] posted on 12-6-2015 at 04:58


someone told liquid tin and alum when heated for soem long time can convert tin in powder shape. But i'm not sure. any idea?
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Molecular Manipulations
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[*] posted on 12-6-2015 at 05:00


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[*] posted on 12-6-2015 at 05:25


Depending on your requirements for particle size and quantity, you could always use a file or sandpaper.
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[*] posted on 12-6-2015 at 10:38


I have not tried but when I was experimenting with tin
(my stock material was solid silvery shiny ingots)
I remember that tin has two common allotropes,
the common alpha-tin which is stable above 13.2 C can change to the brittle beta-tin at low temperatures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin
so maybe if you put tin in a freezer for some time then pound it with a hammer it will pulverise?

liquid (molten) tin poured into water gives tin nodules
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[*] posted on 12-6-2015 at 10:43


Easier said than done. I've had a little strip of some pure tin sitting in the freezer for at least a month now and it hasn't changed a bit. It seems like it takes much colder temps to drive the reaction forward at an appreciable rate.

[Edited on 6-12-2015 by zts16]




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Molecular Manipulations
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[*] posted on 12-6-2015 at 10:45


My tin never turned to beta in the year it's been at -10 C.
Must not be as pure as the label says...




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[*] posted on 13-6-2015 at 03:48


If you take a piece of cast tin and put it in the fridge you will wait a long time for it to convert to grey tin.
Putting it in the freezer will actually slow the reaction down.
However if you take that tin and hammer it flat so there are lots of defect in the crystal structure then put it in the fridge it will change much quicker (though we are still talking about months.)
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[*] posted on 13-6-2015 at 11:35


Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
If you take a piece of cast tin and put it in the fridge you will wait a long time for it to convert to grey tin.
Putting it in the freezer will actually slow the reaction down.
However if you take that tin and hammer it flat so there are lots of defect in the crystal structure then put it in the fridge it will change much quicker (though we are still talking about months.)


Interesting. Has it worked for you?
I haven't done this since I don't have pure tin.




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[*] posted on 13-6-2015 at 12:31


Let me give some background. I'm looking to powder the Tin for making its Calyx that is traditional indian way for making medicine by mixing with other herbs.

- Metal should be in pure powder form without any grain/particles
Traditional ways recommended are by heating with alum or similar stuff. But this is also not fully documented.

Let me give some background. I'm looking to powder the Tin for making its Calyx that is traditional indian way for making medicine by mixing with other herbs.

- Metal should be in pure powder form without any grain/particles
Traditional ways recommended are by heating with alum or similar stuff. But this is also not fully documented.



[Edited on 13-6-2015 by anyz]
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[*] posted on 13-6-2015 at 12:42


Quote: Originally posted by anyz  

Let me give some background. I'm looking to powder the Tin for making its Calyx that is traditional indian way for making medicine by mixing with other herbs.



Huh?




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[*] posted on 13-6-2015 at 13:03


This is probably just me being an idiot, but what if you melted some sodium, dissolved the tin in it, then reacted away the sodium? I'd just been thinking about this recently.



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[*] posted on 13-6-2015 at 13:08


If you heat tin to 162 °C but below ~ 230 °C (m.p.) you will get gamma tin (the third allotrope beside alpha and beta), which is so brittle that you can grind it to powder in a mortar (while still hot).

Other options for coarse powder ("stannum pulveratum"): grind molten tin with salt, let it cool, dissolve in water, dry. Or shake molten tin with hot chalk powder in a wooden container. For medium-fine powder ("stannum praecipitatum"): cementation with zinc from a stannous chloride solution. (literature)

@Sulaiman and Molecular Manipulations: gray tin is the alpha allotrope, not the beta.

[Edited on 13-6-2015 by Pok]
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[*] posted on 14-6-2015 at 01:57


Quote: Originally posted by anyz  
Let me give some background. I'm looking to powder the Tin for making its Calyx that is traditional indian way for making medicine by mixing with other herbs.
[Edited on 13-6-2015 by anyz]

Why?
It's not as it it will have any medical benefit.
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[*] posted on 14-6-2015 at 02:18


Probably some smart indian once realized he could add a heavy metal filler add weight to his useless herb mixture, wrote down the recipe and the sheep followed.



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[*] posted on 14-6-2015 at 02:27


Maybe we need a woo-buster subforum.
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[*] posted on 15-6-2015 at 01:53


Thanks a lot for all comments. This is correct that it is very hard for me to get actual recipe that works; that is within set herbal standards and still within cost-budget.

There are too many fluff but this was not making sense to me. I'm not a pure chemistry soul so i decided to try my luck with knowledgeable forum.
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[*] posted on 15-6-2015 at 12:38


Try Dry Ice. Metals are generally more brittle when cold. Ball milling?

http://www.viralnova.com/chemical-reactions/
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v169/n4302/pdf/169621b0...

Reports suggest that -50 C can do the deed quickly. Sadly, some of us are in parts of the world where Dry Ice is usually unavailable.

[Edited on 15-6-2015 by zed]

[Edited on 15-6-2015 by zed]
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[*] posted on 15-6-2015 at 13:11


If you can buy a CO2 fire extinguisher
e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-2kg-CO2-Fire-Extinguishe...
you can make your own dry ice
e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCkBaoHXJT4

very convenient ... not cheap though

[Edited on 15-6-2015 by Sulaiman]
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[*] posted on 15-6-2015 at 13:25


I am not sure tin is a good addition to herbal medicine......I seem to remember that heavy metals have the opposite of healing effects when consumed.
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[*] posted on 15-6-2015 at 13:26


Quote: Originally posted by Pok  
If you heat tin to 162 °C but below ~ 230 °C (m.p.) you will get gamma tin (the third allotrope beside alpha and beta), which is so brittle that you can grind it to powder in a mortar (while still hot).
...............
[Edited on 13-6-2015 by Pok]


Per this source http://tin.atomistry.com/physical_properties.html , the magic temperature is, to quote:

"At 200° C. tin becomes brittle and can be powdered."

which is within the range (actually very nearly the midpoint) specified by Pok.

[Edited on 15-6-2015 by AJKOER]
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[*] posted on 16-6-2015 at 02:31


Maybe add some Mg-stearate to SnCl2 and add Al pieces into it.Hopefully the Al will reduce the Sn+ to Sn. 3 SnCl2 + 2 Al = 3 Sn + 2 AlCl3.The Mg-stearate is to protect the Sn from redissolving.
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[*] posted on 16-6-2015 at 05:53


Quote: Originally posted by Fenir  
I am not sure tin is a good addition to herbal medicine......I seem to remember that heavy metals have the opposite of healing effects when consumed.


I somewhat recently recounted on SM the dated use of Arsenic in medicine (see http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=62063#... ), apparently as toxin for bacteria. In my opinion, a dangerous art based on relative toxicity (the "cure" kills the bugs before the host). While one can apply Probit Analysis (commonly used in toxicology to determine the relative toxicity of chemicals to living organisms), the art of such statistical analysis can generate a reference LD50 for the host and the disease (where the LD50 is the observed lethal dose at which half the population lives or dies). Hence my use of the words "dangerous" and "art".

The employment of heavy metals in such roles predates the use of modern antibiotics.

I would be interested if any biochemists feel whether any heavy metal (for example, nano silver) could possibly provide an alternative against increasing antibiotic immune super bugs?

[Edited on 16-6-2015 by AJKOER]
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[*] posted on 16-6-2015 at 10:44


I'm not a biochemist, but at least I know how to search the web.
Lots of doctors do use silver as an antibiotic coating on medical devices. Many wound dressings containing silver sulfadiazine or silver nanomaterials may be used on external infections, however there's very little evidence of it's effectiveness. Ref.
Colloidal silver and formulations containing silver salts were used by physicians in the early 20th century, but their use was largely discontinued in the 1940s following the development of safer and effective modern antibiotics.
There is tentative evidence that silver coatings on endotracheal breathing tubes may reduce the incidence of ventilator-associated pneumonia. Ref.

The silver ion (Ag+) is bioactive and in sufficient concentration readily kills bacteria in vitro. Silver exhibits low toxicity in the human body, and minimal risk is expected due to clinical exposure by inhalation, ingestion, or dermal application. Ref.
Since the 1990s, colloidal silver has again been marketed as an alternative medicine, often with extensive "cure-all" claims. Again, there's little evidence that most of these (or any) are effective.
Google is your friend.
As for tin, it isn't very toxic, mostly because in elemental form it doesn't get oxidized and thus remains just tin metal. The compounds of it aren't as toxic as many other heavy metals, but that doesn't make it "safe" either.
Also I doubt the tin used by Native Americans was free from lead and other actually toxic heavy metals, so their continued use of it may have been partially from killed brain cells that kept them from realizing they were poising themselves! No offense, it's isn't/wasn't their fault.

[Edited on 16-6-2015 by Molecular Manipulations]




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