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Author: Subject: Mercury Sulfide Being Sold as Medicine for Children
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[*] posted on 6-10-2018 at 13:17


Quote: Originally posted by happyfooddance  
Directly from the ebay ad (also from common sense):

"2.The colors may be a little difference for the different monitors displays, please understand."

I am intrigued.
I posted a picture of the two things superimposed.
How are you viewing them on "different monitors"?

THere's a fair bit of variability between cameras but most sellers will take care to get a fairly close match (even if they have to add disclaimers to account your your monitor)
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[*] posted on 6-10-2018 at 14:14


Went from "Mercury Sulfide Being Sold as Medicine for Children" to "Pigments Being Sold on eBay that Don't Match Product Image".

I still want you to tell me what the issue is with this seller using the term "cinnabar" to describe their product to potential customers who might search for that term, that is well within their right to do so.
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[*] posted on 6-10-2018 at 14:51


On the subject of language and definitions...
How the hell did the word "cinnabar" get used for curcumin"? That is not traditional Chinese.
It might be an old practice. But that does not make it correct. It is misleading. Perpetuating falsities helps no one.
(I know that Google is not the standard here. But a search of "cinnabar?" does not have anything turmeric-related on the first several pages. If this alternative definition is a thing then it is not a prominent one. I am calling deception.)

In this case there is ambiguity – deliberately so. The picture looks like HgS. The words say turmeric. That alone is enough for a complaint on eBay.



On the subject of efficacy of the substance as a treatment...
Mercury compounds do have some effects although there are much better modern options.
Curcumin also has medicinal effects. But, critically, these are not the same as mercury compounds.
Conflating the two is not ethical. Most of the time a drug switch such as this would be termed malpractice.


On the subject of the efficacy of the treatment method...
Unless there is something volatile in the substance, this procedure is sheer quackery. I know it is legal to promote these kinds of things but in a scientific community we are the ones who should be calling people out for such nonsense.


On the subject of safety...
If the substance supplied is curcumin then it is relatively harmless: short of ingesting a large quantity.
If the substance supplied is HgS then again it is probably quite benign. But consumers should be aware that they are handling a mercury compound.
If the substance is poorly identified then all bets are off. Lead compounds, other mercury compounds, who knows what could conceivably be in there. I would not be trusting it.
It might still be useful – but whether this usefulness is for flavouring a curry or for making amalgums – I have no clue. And that is not a good start point.


On the bigger picture – the effect of this kind of marketing...
Your experience may be different but I regularly encounter people who adopt all kind of ridiculous ideas in relation to diet, medical treatment and other health matters. And I am not talking New-Age loonies here. Rather it is people possessing a decent portion of confirmation bias who have gotten hooked on some fad or other. There is an absence of scientific literacy. There is a lack of discernment in evaluating claims that people make. This is made worse when there is ambiguity over terminology. Unravelling the mess is made even more difficult in the face of language imprecision.
I have noticed also that there is a tendency to pick and choose from the fads available; again without much discernment. If "cinnabar" means any red, powdered pigment, and curcumin is promoted for numerous health benefits, and a person feels freedom to mix and match what they believe will be therapeutic for them, and their starting point is a mercury salt... then there is significant potential for harm.

I think I have some responsibility to call people out on their stupidity.
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[*] posted on 6-10-2018 at 16:38


3. bright red; vermilion.

Speaking of vermilion...

Apparently no one googled cinnabar root or Indian cinnabar. Perhaps the Chinese might name things of such a color cinnabar?

What if the item comes with full details and directions? Even if someone buys some the thread will go on for pages.




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[*] posted on 7-10-2018 at 03:00


Quote: Originally posted by happyfooddance  


I still want you to tell me what the issue is with this seller using the term "cinnabar" to describe their product to potential customers


It isn't cinnabar.

Would you like to buy this gold?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brass-Shim-1-off-6-x-12-x-015/232...

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[*] posted on 7-10-2018 at 04:32


Curiously the seller that sold me cinnabar as a fake mineral has a new ad up again in the category of a mineral but only describes it as cinnabar. The pictures are different. See below

ciny2.jpg - 185kB

I was not able to post the other pics so here is the link
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2g-Natural-Red-Cinnabar-Single-Cr...

99p for 2g of what ever it is LOL

[Edited on 7-10-2018 by wg48]




Borosilicate glass:
Good temperature resistance and good thermal shock resistance but finite.
For normal, standard service typically 200-230°C, for short-term (minutes) service max 400°C
Maximum thermal shock resistance is 160°C
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[*] posted on 7-10-2018 at 09:54


Some of these are reasonable concerns but they miss the point.

First off, anybody buying anything using a pigment name (vermillion, ultramarine, verdigris, etc) ought always look for something more specific to make sure they are getting the right product. I.E., don't expect to get HgS unless it says mercury sulfide or HgS.

But most importantly, anytime anybody is using any spice or essential oil or food or whatever, it is their responsibility to learn about what they are using, especially when using things medicinally. Do you know how many people die from using essential oils? Far more than die from HgS, guaranteed.

I wouldn't be surprised if the LD50 of red cinnabar root was lower than that of HgS.

I don't understand who is the victim? People being sold medicine that doesn't work? If you are sick and you start randomly googling and end up at that eBay ad and you buy it and it doesn't heal you, I see that as a logical consequence of a bad series of decisions. You could also call it natural selection. But if you buy it hoping for HgS, I would also call that a bad decision as well. (wg48 I understand your listing was different, VSEPR_VOID you asked about it first which is a type of wisdom for sure)

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[*] posted on 7-10-2018 at 11:36


Quote: Originally posted by happyfooddance  
S
I don't understand who is the victim? People being sold medicine that doesn't work? If you are sick and you start randomly googling and end up at that eBay ad and you buy it and it doesn't heal you, I see that as a logical consequence of a bad series of decisions. You could also call it natural selection. But if you buy it hoping for HgS, I would also call that a bad decision as well. (wg48 I understand your listing was different, VSEPR_VOID you asked about it first which is a type of wisdom for sure)


"I don't understand who is the victim? People being sold medicine that doesn't work? "
Yes, that's right the people who are being lied to are the victims..


"If you are sick and you start randomly googling and end up at that eBay ad and you buy it and it doesn't heal you, I see that as a logical consequence of a bad series of decisions. You could also call it natural selection."
the law sees it as fraud.

That's because the law recognises the asymmetry of information here.
You can do all the research you like; but if the seller is dishonest, you don't get what you paid for.

The seller has possession of the material and is in a position to verify the identity. The purchaser is not.


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[*] posted on 7-10-2018 at 12:22


Quote: Originally posted by unionised  

"If you are sick and you start randomly googling and end up at that eBay ad and you buy it and it doesn't heal you, I see that as a logical consequence of a bad series of decisions. You could also call it natural selection."
the law sees it as fraud.


I don't know what kind of nazi country you live in that can classify that as fraud, but in my country people have protected civil rights that permit them to believe what they choose. It is only fraud if you claim something will perform a function, while knowing that it certainly won't or is reasonably likely not to work.

"Curcuma can be placed under the pillow or bed sheets, can play a sedative role, so that children can sleep safely, no longer crying.
Wearing brave friends, available cinnabar will brave, will be able to Lucky.
Driving a friend, you can hang in the car cinnabar, can concentrate on the spirit, to avoid illegal transactions were open, all the way safe. Couples can put cinnabar into the drift bottle, hanging on the phone as a decoration, can make the feelings more stable!
Cinnabar is widely used in our daily life "

If you buy this and your kids can't sleep, you don't feel brave or aren't lucky, that doesn't make you a victim of fraud. That makes you a damn idiot.
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[*] posted on 7-10-2018 at 12:34


"It is only fraud if you claim something will perform a function, while knowing that it certainly won't or is reasonably likely not to work."
Well, they claim this function
"placed under the pillow or bed sheets, can play a sedative role, so that children can sleep safely,"

So I guess you don't think it passes this test "it certainly won't or is reasonably likely not to work.".

Are you saying that curcuma (or, indeed, mercuric sulphide) will have a sedative effect?

", that doesn't make you a victim of fraud. That makes you a damn idiot."
Why do you think the two are mutually exclusive?

The law protects both groups.
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[*] posted on 7-10-2018 at 13:51


Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
"It is only fraud if you claim something will perform a function, while knowing that it certainly won't or is reasonably likely not to work."
Well, they claim this function
"placed under the pillow or bed sheets, can play a sedative role, so that children can sleep safely,"

So I guess you don't think it passes this test "it certainly won't or is reasonably likely not to work.".

Are you saying that curcuma (or, indeed, mercuric sulphide) will have a sedative effect?


I don't think it should be a crime to say that it can. Someday it might not even be a crime to say it does. It just waits on somebody to have enough financial interest to investigate it in our country, which is highly unlikely because it would never yield a product which could be patented, and therefore has much less chance for sustained profitability in a competitive market.

It's ignorance like yours which prevents people who could otherwise be helped by cheaper healthier remedies from doing so, and keeps the pharma beast nice and strong.

Some day maybe there will be more scientists and institutions who work for the benefit of the world rather than the pocketbooks of financiers.

Until then, check out this controlled study comparing the effects of diazapam and curcumin
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