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aga
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Science is a great way to discover Proof of observed things, yet it's pretty useless without wild, random ideas of where to shine the Scientific
Torch.
Obviously there have been countless Shinings that have discovered not gold, but piles of pointless dust.
Just because it seems pointless, that is no reason not to consider Ideas, then judge whether it is worthwhile following up the Snake Oil with some
Science, in order to discover if it's useful/true or not.
My 10c: the way i see it all working, with an Absolute Vacuum, there are no dimensions, i.e. complete nothingness, as the presence of Matter or Waves
(same thing 4 me) pre-supposes Somewhere and Somewhen to be, as they are both expressions of the same phenomena.
Edit : 'Both' meaning matter/energy and the dimensional matrix in which we perceive them.
Despite us being accustomed to sitting at a point in Space, and seeing stuff whizzing by over time, if there were no Us, and no Stuff : there would be
no Space, or even Time.
Unscientific, yes. Those notions are merely a result of how i see the currently poorly understood mechanisms, which some Scientist may be able to
test, and throw out the window, or maybe keep.
[Edited on 24-2-2015 by aga]
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Molecular Manipulations
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Are we getting into Dark Fluid yet? IIRC Dark Fluid exists in everything and is what allows light to go through a vacuum. It ties Dark Matter and Dark
Energy together, showing that they are from the same "source". Only the known universe contains it, so before the Big Bang, even if light could exist,
it could not travel except inside the singularity, which is a difficult thing to comprehend. Outside of the singularity was not vacuum, but nothing at
all - which incredibly is not the same thing.
[Edited on 24-2-2015 by Molecular Manipulations]
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
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blogfast25
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Quote: Originally posted by aga  | Science is a great way to discover Proof of observed things, yet it's pretty useless without wild, random ideas of where to shine the Scientific
Torch.
Obviously there have been countless Shinings that have discovered not gold, but piles of pointless dust.
|
To the scientifically untrained eye it may look like that but that's an illusion, a mirage.
Great science evolves very slowly with a very concerted effort and cautious building on what came before ('standing on the shoulders of giants', dixit
Newton)
Even revolutionary ideas, like Einstein's relativity, didn't arise because some guy decided to wildly think outside of the box.
Accidental discoveries do happen but then it still takes one very cognizant scientist to recognise it for what it is.
[Edited on 24-2-2015 by blogfast25]
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aga
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My point was simply that discounting every unscientific idea leads very much nowhere.
The Scientific method has nowhere to go unless there is some 'silly idea' to begin with.
Disregarding ideas soley for their un-scientific origin is like standing on giants blinkered.
Science basically sorts the wheat from the chaff.
[Edited on 24-2-2015 by aga]
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blogfast25
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'Promoting' unscientific ideas leads nowhere either.
I think you are using the term 'unscientific' wrongly here.
[Edited on 24-2-2015 by blogfast25]
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aga
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I agree.
An Idea is just that - an Idea.
To dress it up in pseudo science etc is a pointless waste of time and effort.
To discount a raw idea soley on the basis of lack of scientific foundation is also dangerous, as it reduces the Raw Material required for advancement
- i.e. ideas.
My own random womblings regarding Space, Time and Everything are just ideas, nothing more.
I doubt i'll live long enough to discover a way to mathematically prove any part of them, so they'll vanish like mist one day.
Perhaps i'll get drunk somewhere (guaranteed) with a nascent Physicist (unlikely) and ramble on about what i consider to be Reality, and maybe that
will trigger an idea of their own that eventually advances our understanding of stuff.
Perhaps my Great Grandfather was Einsteins' Bartender.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | To discount a raw idea soley on the basis of lack of scientific foundation is also dangerous, as it reduces the Raw Material required for advancement
- i.e. ideas.
|
It's extremely rare for such ideas to come to fruition. More likely the thing degenerates into incomprehensible rubbish, like what is used by the
defenders of 'HHO', or Zombie's famous word salads...
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Molecular Manipulations
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I think you're on to something there aga. The last time I was drunk I figured out what initiated the Big Bang, unfortunately I don't
remember it. I could be rich right now dammit!
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
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aga
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If you learnt anything, such a different way of thinking that could possibly arrive at such a thought, then that in itself is valuable.
Get a camera, set it to record you when you're way too drunk to remember anything.
Younger crowds usually have a considerate Sober friend who does the videos, and conveniently has already uploaded them to Youtube, ready for you to
watch when you've sobered up.
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Molecular Manipulations
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Good idea. In my case all I had was a scientifically illiterate lady friend with me who genuinely thought I had solved the problem. She was nearly as
drunk as me so who can blame her?
I'm usually the youngest in the crowd and if anyone's in the bottle it's me.
[Edited on 24-2-2015 by Molecular Manipulations]
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | | Quote: Originally posted by aga | To discount a raw idea soley on the basis of lack of scientific foundation is also dangerous, as it reduces the Raw Material required for advancement
- i.e. ideas.
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It's extremely rare for such ideas to come to fruition. More likely the thing degenerates into incomprehensible rubbish, like what is used by the
defenders of 'HHO', or Zombie's famous word salads... |
Why does it always have to be ME that is the example... 
MM said something... Infinite density, equating that to the size of nothing.
In my mind I can picture that as the same as or similar to Perfect vacuum.
Equal force creating equal action.
Given the excepted explanations for England's theories, and Newton/ Einstein, Hawking s, ect... I don't really see where the ideas I am expressing
fall outside the realm of possibility.
A light sucking mass of whatever seems actually more far fetched if you look at it in a mechanical sense, and take theory out of it.
Apply known laws of physics, and take quantum physics out of it.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by Molecular Manipulations | | I think you're on to something there aga. The last time I was drunk I figured out what initiated the Big Bang, unfortunately I don't
remember it. I could be rich right now dammit! |
I'd say that your chance of getting rich that way is about the same as winning a lottery.
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by Molecular Manipulations | | I think you're on to something there aga. The last time I was drunk I figured out what initiated the Big Bang, unfortunately I don't
remember it. I could be rich right now dammit! |
I did that on LSD when I was 17.
I was so disappointed at how simple it all was.
But then I forgot.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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blogfast25
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Clearly drugs aren't the answer either. 
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aga
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Same thing basically.
Quantum Physics isn't all a pile of random ideas, there are proofs.
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Zombie
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To a degree yes. I agree.
My ideas are much larger than my vocabulary.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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aga
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I tend to find that mere language doesn't work for me either.
The ideas are not bound by words, and more patterns of thought.
At times i've tried to Think without the Words being formed at the same time.
There's an appreciable delay as that happens.
It's very hard to get anywhere near the sheer speed of pure thought without the Need to form vocalisable words slowing the whole thing down.
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Molecular Manipulations
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One in five million ain't bad, I should get drunk more often.
If I was smart I could see how many vodka bottles it takes before it pays off. But I'm not smart so I'll just keep buying till my liver begs for
mercy.
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
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zed
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There is No Absolute Vacuum within our universe. This is an area of somethingness, not nothingness. Now, prior to the emergence of our universe,
such a thing as nothingness might have been possible in these parts. But, this current neighborhood is flooded with virtual particles, etc, etc.. ,
and a bunch of stuff we don't understand.
As for dimensions. Current theory says ten or so. The idea that these dimensions are present but somehow imperceptible to us, well I dunno. Some
folks phrase it as their being very small. I prefer to think of it differently. Might be ten dimensions, but the big bang only expanded three of
them. In those other dimensions, expansion did not take place. So that, if you could see the whole shebang, you might perceive a high energy single
dot, with a large ghostly aura around it. That ghostly aura would be us and what we perceive as our universe. Might be imperceptible to physicists,
but some mystics say they done seen it, and that's just what it looks like.
Now, I'm not a moderator, and I happen to think this forum tends to be over moderated, but if this bloated load of crap topic doesn't belong in a
garbage can, I don't know what does.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by zed | Current theory says ten or so. The idea that these dimensions are present but somehow imperceptible to us, well I dunno.
|
That's String Theory, only popular in certain parts of the scientific community. Needs a lot more work to get accepted, to say the least. The theory
keeps hitting mathematical problems.
But this:
| Quote: | | So that, if you could see the whole shebang, you might perceive a high energy single dot, with a large ghostly aura around it. That ghostly aura would
be us and what we perceive as our universe. Might be imperceptible to physicists, but some mystics say they done seen it, and that's just what it
looks like. |
... does belong with the garbage. With the 'mystics'.
[Edited on 25-2-2015 by blogfast25]
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aga
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Bloated crap it may be in your eyes.
Where it belongs, i dunno.
Let's strip SM down to talking about Known things, and that would be awesome, or pointless (you decide).
When i throw an Apple Up, it comes Down.
Horray ! Everyone in agreement, with no dissent.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga |
When i throw an Apple Up, it comes Down.
Horray ! Everyone in agreement, with no dissent.
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Unless it's a helium apple, of course.
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morganbw
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I have enjoyed reading this thread.
Unfortunately I have gained nothing from it except that people do not see the same. ( Still a good thread though )
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Zombie
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Quote:
"There is No Absolute Vacuum within our universe. This is an area of somethingness, not nothingness. Now, prior to the emergence of our universe, such
a thing as nothingness might have been possible in these parts. But, this current neighborhood is flooded with virtual particles, etc, etc.. , and a
bunch of stuff we don't understand."
This is exactly what I am getting at.
What is you took the universe as a time/ dimensional sheet. One side is something-ness, and the other is nothing-ness.
These "black holes being the interface between the two.
On a cosmic time scale we could be in a yin/yang cycle of reversing realities. Like the kids magic trick where the cloth turns inside out reversing
color.
Anything could be.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by morganbw | I have enjoyed reading this thread.
Unfortunately I have gained nothing from it except that people do not see the same. ( Still a good thread though ) |
It is a very enjoyable thread. I have re-learned perhaps 6 years worth of school that I didn't pay attention to the first time.
It's actually a privilege to discuss such concepts as our human perception of reality with people much more educated than myself.
Where I live these conversations always end with someone puking on my shoes, and needing a ride home.
I want a Helium apple!
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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